[opensource] RE: Nvidia Drivers

Lowell Toms toms.16 at osu.edu
Thu Oct 26 08:37:00 EDT 2006


"I just installed Ubuntu (6.06) ... installing updated  
nVidia drivers." 
"Even with the updated drivers, redrawing is really slow. (plus there  
are lot of redraw bugs in general) Another reason why GNU/Linux seems  
immature."

Preaching.Mode.On();

You are confusing apples and oranges here.  The driver issue in Linux is an
open source and GPL issue.  Nvidia (and others) won't release their driver
source under the GPL and instead you get a binary that was published as an
after thought once the proprietary driver for the dominant (convicted
monopolist) OS is issued.

Free Linux distributions rarely include non-GPL drivers.  If you want Linux
with tweaked (as tweaked as a binary can get) proprietary drivers, you have
to hunt a little longer or pay.  The driver issue has nothing to do with
Linux -- the kernel -- part of the open source world, it has everything to
do with the open source concept and how each distro handles it.

Try the PCLinuxOS and install the Nvidia driver via synaptic using these
instructions (it uses a dkms module - pretty simple solution):

http://www.pclinuxonline.com/wiki/SetupNVidia

Other good bets are Mephis, Mandriva Power Pack (not free) and while I
haven't had any experience with Suse, I'm sure they have this issue under
control also (for a price).  Ubuntu is being very cautious with their mass
distribution product, and they are also a less than cutting edge distro (but
more stable) since they are, at their core, a Debian cousin (and the good
part is apt-get).  

You can peruse the plethora of distributions at:

http://www.distrowatch.com

If you're just looking for a quick way to get the gcc compiler in all it's
glory try Quantian, a Knoppix type live DVD.  It creates a tmp directory on
you hard drive and you can compile to your heart's content without bothering
that other (convicted monopolist - but unpunished) OS.

http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com/quantian.html

Now, do you see what open source is all about?  It provides choices.  Just
because some of the hardware makers don't get it (and may be actively trying
to stop it) doesn't mean you shouldn't take a bit time to research the
options and use the best of some very good stuff that's out there.

Preaching.Mode.Off();




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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Linux vs. Windows (Charlie Hayes)
   2. Re:  Linux vs. Windows (Charlie Hayes)
   3. Re:  Linux vs. Windows (Charlie Hayes)
   4. Re:  Linux vs. Windows (Nick Hurley)
   5. Re:  Linux vs. Windows (Trent Arms)
   6. Re:  Linux vs. Windows (Brian Dittmer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:40:24 -0400
From: Charlie Hayes <hayes.465 at osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [opensource] Linux vs. Windows
To: "Alexander J. Lingo" <lingo.13 at osu.edu>
Cc: opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu, William Triest <triest.1 at osu.edu>
Message-ID: <D5D028F8-167F-438D-BC02-6D394128173A at osu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I just installed Ubuntu (6.06) and I found the resolution box. It  
seems like its populated with common items and not items populated  
from my monitor. It doesnt list resolutions my monitor supports and  
it doesnt list refresh rates my monitor supports.

The redraw was really slow so I googled around for installing updated  
nVidia drivers. I found some Wiki that gives instructions but its  
pretty crazy. I had to run a few command line commands, restart X/ 
Gnome (which didn't even confirm when I hit ctrl-alt-backspace),  
create some config file, edit another, etc. On Windows I just  
download an exe, run it, and click next a few times, then restart.   
It's much easier.

Even with the updated drivers, redrawing is really slow. (plus there  
are lot of redraw bugs in general) Another reason why GNU/Linux seems  
immature.

I would expect USB mass storage and digital cameras to just on any  
modern operating system. GNU/Linux has nothing special seeing as how  
Windows and MacOS have supported those for many years.

-Charlie

On Oct 25, 2006, at 2:45 PM, Alexander J. Lingo wrote:
> On 10/25/06, Paul Betts <bettsp at cse.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 12:45 -0400, Charlie Hayes wrote:
> > Every year I try the latest and greatest GNU/Linux distribution for
> > desktop use, and every year I am impressed at how little progress is
> > made on the ease of use front. This past summer I watched some using
> > Ubuntu. This user was forced to enter a command-prompt configuration
> > utility to adjust his resolution, color depth, and refresh rate. The
> > configuration was not automatic at all and required him to enter
> > timings and resolutions manually. Since Windows 95 (10 years  
> ago), or
> > MacOS .. like 6 or 7 (~13 Years ago), you could change these  
> settings
> > on-the-fly using drop-downs and sliders and options that were not
> > compatible with your monitor were disabled/invisible.
>
> System->Preferences->Screen Resolution
>
>  **Finds his flame retardant suit**
>
> Actually, with my new Geforce 7600GS + binary Nvidia driver +  
> Ubuntu Edgy Eft RC, I see no options above 1024x768 or any refresh  
> rates other than 60Hz, even though my monitor is capable of 1600x1200.
>
> But, a lot of things in Ubuntu "Just work" - USB mass storage  
> devices, digital cameras, etc...
>
> -- alex



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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:51:45 -0400
From: Charlie Hayes <hayes.465 at osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [opensource] Linux vs. Windows
To: Nick Hurley <hurley at todesschaf.org>
Cc: opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
Message-ID: <F7B64142-0959-4673-8A4B-3C66F7906950 at osu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Oct 25, 2006, at 3:02 PM, Nick Hurley wrote:

> Charlie Hayes <hayes.465 at osu.edu> writes:
>> Yes, the famous RPC buffer overflow arbitrary code execution bug.
>>
>> A friend of mine (this is all before SP2 which fixes this) got a   
>> virus
>> before windows was even done installing.
>>
>> Again, this is a non-issue, its fixed and since that incident   
>> Microsoft
>> has been really into security.
>
> The problem is that you are taking Microsoft at their word. I'm not  
> some
> crazy Microsoft-hating free software purist (I am, in fact, writing  
> some
> closed-source Windows software in parallel with typing this), but I  
> can
> say, fairly confidently, that Microsoft's commitment to security  
> doesn't
> even come close to measuring up to what they CLAIM their commitment to
> security is. Yes, they have made SOME improvements to their security
> process. Are these improvements enough? I very seriously doubt it.
>

I have read many independent studies claiming that Windows security  
is just as good as GNU/Linux. There are also many studies showing  
that Windows Defender is one of the if not the best antispyware  
application. Plus Microsoft basically has their whole business riding  
on it.

>> It's quite possible that Linux has a similar issue and Windows still
>> contains a similar bug. However, as Nick pointed out, Windows is the
>> target since it has such a huge share of the market.
>
> The only thing about a similar vulnerability "in Linux" is that it  
> would
> likely be in a userland daemon, not in the Linux kernel itself which
> could (most likely) NOT run as root, thereby mitigating the effects of
> any such vulnerability in a VERY signinficant fashion that current
> releases of Windows simply can not do (I can't speak to the  
> capabilities
> of Vista, as I've never tried it, and in any event, it's not yet
> released).

There is no way you can claim that the Linux kernel (or things that  
run in kernel land) are bug-free. I'm sure Microsoft is doing their  
part in keeping things out of kernel land that shouldn't be there. In- 
fact they have gone so far as to prevent anti-virus software from  
third parties (which they have given in to and wont be doing).

-Charlie Hayes


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:23:56 -0400
From: Charlie Hayes <hayes.465 at osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [opensource] Linux vs. Windows
To: Brian Dittmer <dittmer.6 at osu.edu>
Cc: Open Source mailing list <opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <E6FC9FC5-407C-41CC-917B-3A966E97D987 at osu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

No, I'm claiming that now (two years after that document was made)  
Windows security is on par with Linux. Plus the register isn't a  
"source" worth sighting.

-Charlie

On Oct 25, 2006, at 2:23 PM, Brian Dittmer wrote:

> Charlie Hayes wrote:
>> That document is over two years old. Note my phrasing: "At this  
>> point".
> So you're claiming Linux is in fact worse off than it was two years  
> ago?  Again, cite some sources.
>>
>> -Charlie Hayes
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2006, at 1:57 PM, Brian Dittmer wrote:
>>
>>> Charlie Hayes wrote:
>>>> At this point the general security of Windows is about the same  
>>>> as GNU/Linux system.
>>> Wrong.
>>>
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/security/ 
>>> security_report_windows_vs_linux/
>>
>>
>



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: 25 Oct 2006 16:35:49 -0400
From: Nick Hurley <hurley at todesschaf.org>
Subject: Re: [opensource] Linux vs. Windows
To: Charlie Hayes <hayes.465 at osu.edu>
Cc: opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
Message-ID: <87slhcp1zu.fsf at todesschaf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Charlie Hayes <hayes.465 at osu.edu> writes:
> I have read many independent studies claiming that Windows security  is
> just as good as GNU/Linux. There are also many studies showing  that
> Windows Defender is one of the if not the best antispyware
> application. Plus Microsoft basically has their whole business riding
> on it.

I'm not saying Microsoft isn't trying, but it certainly is NOT their
first priority, nor is "their whole business riding on it". You can read
things that say that Microsoft's security is as good as (or even better
than) security in Linux, and you can read things that say that security
in Linux is better than Microsoft's security, but, at the end of the
day, the fact is that there are more security problems that plague
windows than plague the various distributions of Linux. Yes, some of
this can be attributed to the fact that windows is just more popular,
but it really is at least just as attributable to the fact that
Microsoft had an ABYSMAL attitude towards security up until about a year
or a year and a half ago. And, 1-1.5 years is NOT enough time to make up
the difference.

> There is no way you can claim that the Linux kernel (or things that  run
> in kernel land) are bug-free. I'm sure Microsoft is doing their  part in
> keeping things out of kernel land that shouldn't be there. In-
> fact they have gone so far as to prevent anti-virus software from  third
> parties (which they have given in to and wont be doing).

Where did I ever claim that the Linux kernel is bug free? I
didn't. Let's take a look at what I wrote one more time:

> > The only thing about a similar vulnerability "in Linux" is that it
> > would
> > likely be in a userland daemon, not in the Linux kernel itself

See the word "likely" in there? "Likely" is not the same as
"definitely". Yes, there may be (and, in fact, HAVE been) kernel-level
exploits for linux. Yes, there WILL be some in the future. That's a fact
of software development. Just as it is a fact that there WILL be
kernel-level exploits in Windows in the future, even with windows
defender running. I never spoke in absolutes about "linux doesn't have
bugs, windows always has bugs". You were the one who initially said that
malware "is no longer an issue" now that windows defender exists. With
this email, I'm done spamming everyone else on the list going back and
forth with you. If you want to discuss this more with me, it will be in
private email.
-- 
Peace,
  Nick

   "Who can fathom the feminine mind?" -Calvin "I like `em anyway" -Hobbes


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:49:05 -0400
From: "Trent Arms" <trent.arms at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [opensource] Linux vs. Windows
To: opensource <opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID:
	<cb3e95290610251349x606be121h544fce9ccb879095 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Are you guys meeting in a group somewhere or is a find-your-way sort of
affair?  I'm interested in going (I don't get to play hardware nearly often
enough...)

On 10/25/06, Alexander J. Lingo <lingo.13 at osu.edu> wrote:
>
> On 10/25/06, BRIAN SWANEY <swaney.29 at osu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I also plan to go to some Geeks For Free (I think that's what they're
> > called) meeting with Alex, so you could also meet me there.
>
>
> I think he means FreeGeek Columbus <http://freegeekcolumbus.org/>. We will
> be going to their meeting tomorrow at 7:00pm at their new location - 1219
N.
> 4th Street. Everyone is welcome to come with us and learn about some great
> volunteer opertunities with FreeGeek!
>
> -- alex
>
> **Goes to look for his flame retardant suit**
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensource mailing list
> Opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
> http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource
>
>
>
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:54:24 -0400
From: Brian Dittmer <dittmer.6 at osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [opensource] Linux vs. Windows
To: Charlie Hayes <hayes.465 at osu.edu>
Cc: Open Source mailing list <opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <453FCF00.9020200 at osu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I wasn't "sighting" anything, maybe citing...but anyway, you should READ 
THE WHOLE ARTICLE before you disregard it immediately.  They actually 
use, *gasp*, a process and *double gasp* INFORMED RESEARCH to come to 
their conclusions. 

Besides, you still haven't addressed the fact that your claims are 
baseless and you've yet to back them up with any evidence.  Com'on, you 
ridicule Brian (the other one) for not being able to use Google...find 
some evidence from a reputable source with a documented process that 
says Windows is as secure or more secure than Linux.  If you're going to 
start a flame war (and if you thought your original email wouldn't 
you're more clueless than I thought) at least back it up.


Charlie Hayes wrote:
> No, I'm claiming that now (two years after that document was made) 
> Windows security is on par with Linux. Plus the register isn't a 
> "source" worth sighting.
>
> -Charlie
>
> On Oct 25, 2006, at 2:23 PM, Brian Dittmer wrote:
>
>> Charlie Hayes wrote:
>>> That document is over two years old. Note my phrasing: "At this point".
>> So you're claiming Linux is in fact worse off than it was two years 
>> ago?  Again, cite some sources.
>>>
>>> -Charlie Hayes
>>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2006, at 1:57 PM, Brian Dittmer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Charlie Hayes wrote:
>>>>> At this point the general security of Windows is about the same as 
>>>>> GNU/Linux system.
>>>> Wrong.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/security/security_report_windows_vs_linux/

>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>



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