[opensource] Letter writing for OSS hardware support

Steven James Samuel Stapleton stapleton at mps.ohio-state.edu
Fri Oct 27 05:35:25 EDT 2006


Regardless of oppinion on the legal issue, isn't part of what this club 
about helping give OSS users more options? My main comment here was more 
about that than anything else - getting another company to help support OSS 
software. I understand the corporate litiguous BS is common all over the 
place, but the nature of the case mentioned seemed worse to me. And even 
without that, my experience with Toshiba's hardware support has been better 
than with anyone else, and I don't want to loose that.

Thanks,
-JIm Stapleton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "BRIAN SWANEY" <swaney.29 at osu.edu>
To: "Steven James Samuel Stapleton" <stapleton at mps.ohio-state.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource] Letter writing for OSS hardware support


> You can't really avoid this issue with Dell. It will always be there and, 
> I actually think if that's their biggest problem, they aren't that bad. 
> Most (if I say "all" it's steotyping, which is bad) corporations become 
> addicted to money as it corrupts them (look at the tobacco companies; they 
> sell a product that kills almost twice what alcohal, suicide, AIDS, 
> murders, car accidents, suicide, murders and fires kill combined to kids, 
> because they are most vulnerable to their marketing). Don't most companies 
> practice unethically (like Nike with children's sweatshops or Clean & 
> Clear putting a bunchh of cancerous chemicals in all their products), and 
> then turn around and play legal games (like Philip Morris bribing and 
> blackmailing politicians to keep the FDA from regulating their products)? 
> I didn't think there were any significant "ethical" companies out there. I 
> support your idea whole-heartedly, but it probably can't be done unless 
> you just don't buy a computer at all.
>
> -Brian Swaney
> Content-type: multipart/alternative;
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>
>
> --Boundary_(ID_Fa1TDTH72FHQAU+OrT4BWA)
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
> I will /never/ get HP/Compaq again, their hardware quality kinda low, and 
> their support quality for personal computer is even lower.
>
> Seeing what's in Gateways when I did tech support repairing them, I'll not 
> get a gateway either.
>
> Dell, quality/support is good, and would be otherwise acceptable. Google 
> "Paul Dell" and "Lawsuit", that's why I won't get Dell - you buy not just 
> your computer, but you also pay implicitly for what the company provides 
> to the world/community. Before this, I'd have happily gotten Dell.
>
> -Jim Stapleton
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Sean Lee
>  To: porr.4 at osu.edu
>  Cc: opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
>  Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:34 AM
>  Subject: Re: [opensource] Letter writing for OSS hardware support
>
>
>  Also, I've gone through HP/Compaq, Dell, and gateway notebooks... all run 
> linux flawlessly.  I have every single component working, even the 
> softkeys and touchpad.  So, I'm not sure what else you need.  Toshiba 
> notebook support in linux is also up there, that I'm sure of.  and of 
> course, the thinkpads are just absolutely wonderful in linux.
>
>  You don't need the specific driver for each component, pcmcia works 
> through hotplug/coldplug modules, and wireless usually can be solved using 
> ndiswrapper in the worst case scenario.  But the fact that I have all the 
> softkeys and all intended features (and more) of my touch pad working in 
> linux, says that the support in linux for notebooks is 'on par.'
>
>  If you have some issues (I'm on a dell right now) ask the list, maybe 
> someone knows the answer to your problem.
>
>
>  Sean
>
>
>  On 10/26/06, Adam Porr <porr.4 at osu.edu> wrote:
>    Where does IBM\Lenovo fall in your list? I've never had any problems
>    using my Thinkpad T41 with Linux.  Is there an issue that I am unaware
>    of? You should take a look at Lenovo if you have not yet.
>
>    Adam
>
>    On 10/26/06, Steven James Samuel Stapleton < 
> stapleton at mps.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>    >
>    >
>    > OK, first of all, I've had several notebooks in the past, and always 
> been
>    > burned by tech support. There are four companies that have not burned 
> me in
>    > hardware support in my use of them:
>    > 1) Uses horribly components and I will not buy
>    > 2) Does not have any options to meet my needs
>    > 3) Is involved in a litigation that who's charges are 
> self-descriptive of
>    > the litigation and I refuse to buy from
>    > 4) Has good hardware, and above par support, but has modified it so 
> it is a
>    > bit quirky in FreeBSD or Linux (that may explain why I've had bad
>    > experiences with Ubuntu on my current notebook)
>    > 5) There are many I've heard to be good, but I am nervous at 
> switching now
>    > that I have found something that is already mostly good
>    >
>    > Anyway, manufacturer number 4, who if I had to buy a notebook again, 
> I still
>    > would still use, is Toshiba. I can deal with non-functional PCMCIA 
> and
>    > Wireless in Linux/BSD, better than I can with a company that doesn't 
> support
>    > their hardware, and support it right. Anyway, I've never seen a place 
> as
>    > helpful when I've called in for tech support - the first string of 
> people
>    > could even answer what my PCMCIA controller was - most first 
> string'ers
>    > couldn't even tell you the video chipset in other places I've found.
>    > Regardless, enough of *why* I like them, time to fix why I don't.
>    >
>    > Would anyone here be interested in joining me in writing letters to 
> them to
>    > try to get them to write drivers for the Open Source operating 
> systems, and
>    > if possible, open source drivers (I can't say must-be open source, 
> because
>    > there are times, such as with nVidia and ATI, where such is not 
> legally
>    > possible)? I've already written a letter specific to my case, but I 
> was
>    > wondering if anyone else would like to join me. The main concept of 
> the
>    > letter would be "I would buy a Toshiba notebook if it had drivers for
>    > [insert one or more open source operating systems here]".
>    >
>    > Anyone up for that and would like to help me draft a general letter?
>    >
>    > Thanks,
>    > -Jim Stapleton
>    > _______________________________________________
>    > Opensource mailing list
>    > Opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
>    > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource
>    >
>    >
>    >
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>
>
>
>
>
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> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I will /never/ get HP/Compaq again, their 
> hardware
> quality kinda low, and their support quality for personal computer&nbsp;is 
> even
> lower.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Seeing what's in Gateways when I did tech 
> support
> repairing them, I'll not get a gateway either.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dell, quality/support is good, and would be
> otherwise acceptable. Google "Paul Dell" and "Lawsuit", that's why I won't 
> get
> Dell - you buy not just your computer, but you also pay implicitly for 
> what the
> company provides to the world/community. Before this, I'd have happily 
> gotten
> Dell.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Jim Stapleton</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE
> style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; 
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>  <DIV
>  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: 
> black"><B>From:</B>
>  <A title=lee.2817 at osu.edu href="mailto:lee.2817 at osu.edu">Sean Lee</A> 
> </DIV>
>  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=porr.4 at osu.edu
>  href="mailto:porr.4 at osu.edu">porr.4 at osu.edu</A> </DIV>
>  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
>  title=opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
> 
> href="mailto:opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu">opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu</A>
>  </DIV>
>  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 26, 2006 
> 9:34
>  AM</DIV>
>  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [opensource] Letter 
> writing
>  for OSS hardware support</DIV>
>  <DIV><BR></DIV>Also, I've gone through HP/Compaq, Dell, and gateway
>  notebooks... all run linux flawlessly.&nbsp; I have every single 
> component
>  working, even the softkeys and touchpad.&nbsp; So, I'm not sure what else 
> you
>  need.&nbsp; Toshiba notebook support in linux is also up there, that I'm 
> sure
>  of.&nbsp; and of course, the thinkpads are just absolutely wonderful in 
> linux.
>  <BR><BR>You don't need the specific driver for each component, pcmcia 
> works
>  through hotplug/coldplug modules, and wireless usually can be solved 
> using
>  ndiswrapper in the worst case scenario.&nbsp; But the fact that I have 
> all the
>  softkeys and all intended features (and more) of my touch pad working in
>  linux, says that the support in linux for notebooks is 'on par.' 
> <BR><BR>If
>  you have some issues (I'm on a dell right now) ask the list, maybe 
> someone
>  knows the answer to your problem.<BR><BR><BR>Sean<BR><BR>
>  <DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 10/26/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Adam 
> Porr
>  </B>&lt;<A href="mailto:porr.4 at osu.edu">porr.4 at osu.edu</A>&gt; 
> wrote:</SPAN>
>  <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
>  style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: 
> rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Where
>    does IBM\Lenovo fall in your list? I've never had any problems 
> <BR>using my
>    Thinkpad T41 with Linux.&nbsp;&nbsp;Is there an issue that I am
>    unaware<BR>of? You should take a look at Lenovo if you have not
>    yet.<BR><BR>Adam<BR><BR>On 10/26/06, Steven James Samuel Stapleton 
> &lt;<A
>    href="mailto:stapleton at mps.ohio-state.edu">
>    stapleton at mps.ohio-state.edu</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OK,
>    first of all, I've had several notebooks in the past, and always
>    been<BR>&gt; burned by tech support. There are four companies that have 
> not
>    burned me in <BR>&gt; hardware support in my use of them:<BR>&gt; 1) 
> Uses
>    horribly components and I will not buy<BR>&gt; 2) Does not have any 
> options
>    to meet my needs<BR>&gt; 3) Is involved in a litigation that who's 
> charges
>    are self-descriptive of <BR>&gt; the litigation and I refuse to buy
>    from<BR>&gt; 4) Has good hardware, and above par support, but has 
> modified
>    it so it is a<BR>&gt; bit quirky in FreeBSD or Linux (that may explain 
> why
>    I've had bad<BR>&gt; experiences with Ubuntu on my current notebook)
>    <BR>&gt; 5) There are many I've heard to be good, but I am nervous at
>    switching now<BR>&gt; that I have found something that is already 
> mostly
>    good<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Anyway, manufacturer number 4, who if I had to buy 
> a
>    notebook again, I still <BR>&gt; would still use, is Toshiba. I can 
> deal
>    with non-functional PCMCIA and<BR>&gt; Wireless in Linux/BSD, better 
> than I
>    can with a company that doesn't support<BR>&gt; their hardware, and 
> support
>    it right. Anyway, I've never seen a place as <BR>&gt; helpful when I've
>    called in for tech support - the first string of people<BR>&gt; could 
> even
>    answer what my PCMCIA controller was - most first string'ers<BR>&gt;
>    couldn't even tell you the video chipset in other places I've found.
>    <BR>&gt; Regardless, enough of *why* I like them, time to fix why I
>    don't.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Would anyone here be interested in joining me in
>    writing letters to them to<BR>&gt; try to get them to write drivers for 
> the
>    Open Source operating systems, and <BR>&gt; if possible, open source 
> drivers
>    (I can't say must-be open source, because<BR>&gt; there are times, such 
> as
>    with nVidia and ATI, where such is not legally<BR>&gt; possible)? I've
>    already written a letter specific to my case, but I was <BR>&gt; 
> wondering
>    if anyone else would like to join me. The main concept of the<BR>&gt; 
> letter
>    would be "I would buy a Toshiba notebook if it had drivers for<BR>&gt;
>    [insert one or more open source operating systems here]". 
> <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;
>    Anyone up for that and would like to help me draft a general
>    letter?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thanks,<BR>&gt; -Jim Stapleton<BR>&gt;
>    _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Opensource 
> mailing
>    list<BR>&gt; <A
> 
> href="mailto:Opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu">Opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu</A><BR>&gt;
>    <A
> 
> href="http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource">http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource
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> href="mailto:Opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu">Opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu</A><BR><A
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