[opensource] Re: Opensource Digest, Vol 47, Issue 4

daniel jensen jensen.116 at osu.edu
Sun Jan 18 22:50:27 EST 2009


Selecting a Linux Server Distro???  You can install Ubuntu Server 8.04 
LTS which is supported for 5 years...  If you want to install the GUI 
you can as well...  "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop"  might be a 
little easier from that point forward...

Daniel

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re:  Meeting [12/4]: Abusing the Unix Shell (Aaron Joseph)
>    2. Re:  Meeting [12/4]: Abusing the Unix Shell (Wesley Haines)
>    3.  Selecting a Linux server distro? (Timothy Normand Miller)
>    4. Re:  Selecting a Linux server distro? (Shaun Brady)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 21:33:01 -0500
> From: "Aaron Joseph" <joseph.181 at osu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [opensource] Meeting [12/4]: Abusing the Unix Shell
> To: Wyatt <trent.arms at gmail.com>
> Cc: opensource <opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<26a4553d0812091833j706481bfua602b41400be265e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It looks like there is some serious knowledge about this subject [graphics
> cards] floating around the mailing list. So who wants to tell me how to get
> compiz to play nice with my 2 nvidia [6800] cards? will offer a reward of $2
> [us] to the person who can tell me how to get desktop effects working across
> 3 monitors using 2 graphics cards. I'll go out an buy 2 ATI cards if thats
> the solution.... I just really only care about having burning windows!!! I
> have spent a good amount of time trying to get this to work and still havent
> found a solution. Just getting 3 monitors to work at all was a pain... but
> now I want to complete the journey by getting compiz to work. The error I
> keep getting is "compositing extension not available" or something like
> that. It is very annoying and I want to get rid of it. If anyone knows how
> to make this work then this is the time to speak up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> --Aaron Joseph
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Wyatt <trent.arms at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> This got long.  Sorry.  I'm not really certain what the CW is on drivers
>> these days.  There are several things I CAN say, however.
>>
>> *nVidia's nvidia module:  Uses a Really Ugly Hack to do multiple monitors.
>> Very poor 2D performance.  Doesn't play with compositing or suspend well.
>> Sometimes derefs NULL (oops).  It's easy to coax into working though.  Also
>> added video decode acceleration recently.
>> *nVidia maintained open kernel module, nv:  slow and only does 2D.
>> Supports Xv, at least.
>> *Open source noveau module:  Based on nv, so 2D works and has, in fact been
>> improved amazingly as I recall...recently merged into Gallium3D to hopefully
>> get THAT stuff accelerated too.  Maybe.
>> *ATi's (well, AMD's now) fglrx module:  Fairly performant when you can get
>> it running.  It's definitely gotten better about running in some senses--
>> it installs mostly cleanly most of the time, though switching from another
>> driver or switching to another driver will create...headaches.  Supports
>> proper xinerama, RandR, and such.
>> *Open source radeon module: has supported R100 and R200 GPUs (all radeons
>> pre-9500, IIRC) for a while.  DRI works and they behave as one would expect
>> hardware to behave when its working (generally).  Good Job.  dri_r300.so
>> (Radeon 9500 through...well, apparently everything else, now) works...?  It
>> worked decently with my X300 in my laptop, at least, but still lags behind
>> the closed one.  Work is proceeding, though, so that's neat.  May be merge
>> in radeonhd.
>> *Open radeonhd module: being developed on commission by Novell.  For newer
>> cards.
>>
>> On topic (lol):
>> I've learned a lot from this handy...tome. http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
>> My favourite shell trick is probably using kill and killall to manipulate
>> processes outside of...well, killing them.  Also, learning that `--` is bash
>> for "Too close for parameters; switching to args" would have been useful
>> long before I learned it.
>>
>> -Wyatt
>>
>> PS: Sorry, Jim.  Damn you, "Reply to all!"
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:51, Jim Dinan <dinan at cse.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Hi Brian,
>>>
>>> Nope, wallpaper_slideshow isn't a screensaver.  It periodically changes
>>> your desktop wallpaper for you even while you are using the machine (ie
>>> right click on the desktop -> "Change Desktop Background" -> ...).
>>>
>>> By the way, I had heard that the ATI linux drivers were pretty good
>>> these days?  Is the conventional wisdom still to stick with Nvidia for
>>> accelerated 3d under Linux?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>  ~Jim.
>>>
>>> Brian Swaney wrote:
>>>       
>>>> This could be a really stupid comment, but I'll post it anyway on the
>>>> off chance that it's not.
>>>>
>>>> /Aaron Joseph wrote:/
>>>>         
>>>>> I want to try adjusting the refresh rate to be a fraction of a second
>>>>> and then try to use frames from a video with the script to see if I
>>>>> can get it to the point of displaying a moving image on my desktop.
>>>>> Unfortunately I foresee some serious resource usage problems on the
>>>>> horizon since this is something that should really be done by writing
>>>>> a program in C that does this. But if anyone happens to have a
>>>>> supercomputer and can get this going then let me know how it turns out.
>>>>>           
>>>> If it's the screensaver, and is therefore running in response to the
>>>> computer being /idle/, then you should have some extra CPU cylces to go
>>>> around. Just run the proper codec and select a matching format file. I
>>>> don't think I know enough about bash or videos to point you in the right
>>>> direction, but I'm sure there is some string of commands you could use
>>>> to display the output of a codec from a large file to your computer
>>>> screen. Or you could probably use mplayer with some arguments or
>>>>         
>>> something.
>>>       
>>>> In the case of a low frame-rate, it's probably because of the graphics
>>>> card. Mine is a proprietary ATI one, and if I try putting any kind of
>>>> video in full screen, the frame rate is pathetic. On that new computer
>>>> I'm returning, it has an Intel video card with a driver that (gasp!)
>>>> actually works when you're not using Windows Vista. Unlike ATI, its
>>>> framerate is significantly less than 1 second. I heard this card isn't
>>>> the greatest at performance, but it certainly does the trick for
>>>> full-screen videos. With the right video card and maybe a decent
>>>> processor, this sort of thing should be doable; better than having a
>>>> movie interrupted by a screensaver anyway.
>>>>
>>>> -Brian Swaney
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensource mailing list
>>> Opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
>>> http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensource mailing list
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>>     
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:08:18 +0000
> From: Wesley Haines <kremit at wrpn.net>
> Subject: Re: [opensource] Meeting [12/4]: Abusing the Unix Shell
> To: Aaron Joseph <joseph.181 at osu.edu>
> Cc: opensource <opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu>
> Message-ID: <1231826898.24888.570.camel at Kremit>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 21:33 -0500, Aaron Joseph wrote:
>   
>> It looks like there is some serious knowledge about this subject
>> [graphics cards] floating around the mailing list. So who wants to
>> tell me how to get compiz to play nice with my 2 nvidia [6800] cards?
>> will offer a reward of $2 [us] to the person who can tell me how to
>> get desktop effects working across 3 monitors using 2 graphics cards.
>> I'll go out an buy 2 ATI cards if thats the solution.... I just really
>> only care about having burning windows!!! I have spent a good amount
>> of time trying to get this to work and still havent found a solution.
>> Just getting 3 monitors to work at all was a pain... but now I want to
>> complete the journey by getting compiz to work. The error I keep
>> getting is "compositing extension not available" or something like
>> that. It is very annoying and I want to get rid of it. If anyone knows
>> how to make this work then this is the time to speak
>> up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>     
>
> Wow, a month later and I'm finally responding ;-)
> I've had years of experience (hair-pulling?) with NVIDIA and ATI cards
> on Linux. You should be able to get two monitors working together with
> NVIDIA's TwinView settings.
>
> First, you'll want to get the monitors to work in the first place. After
> installing the drivers (kmod-nvidia* package from RPMFusion for Fedora,
> and similar packages for Ubuntu and SuSE) you should be able to run: 
>
> nvidia-xconfig --add-argb-glx-visuals --twinview
>
> Caveat: TwinView only runs on two monitors at a time. If you want to use
> all three as 1 desktop, You'll have to use Xinerama to link all three
> screens together. Compositing will still work, though, according to
> here: 
>
> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/180.22/README/chapter-14.html
>
> I would suggest using 
> # nvidia-settings
>
> to configure the three screens separately, and then add the Xinerama
> lines from that page to your xorg.conf file.
>
> Finally, add the following to your xorg.conf file to hopefully get
> compositing working: 
>
> Section "ServerFlags"
>         Option      "AIGLX" "on"
> EndSection
>
> Section "Extensions"
>         Option      "Composite" "Enable"
> EndSection
>
> (installing the drivers from RPMFusion does all of this automatically
> except for the TwinView/Xinerama part).
>
> Hope that helps!
>
>
> ============================================================
> Wesley Haines
>
> Network Administrator       Webmaster
> WRPN Internet Services      weatherUSA
> http://wrpn.net/            http://www.weatherusa.net/
> ============================================================
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:05:12 -0500
> From: Timothy Normand Miller <millerti at cse.ohio-state.edu>
> Subject: [opensource] Selecting a Linux server distro?
> To: opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
> Message-ID: <73955F2C-2996-4770-B164-BFCCC554236E at cse.ohio-state.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Hey, all.
>
> I have a question about Linux server distros.  I have a quad core box  
> here at my house that I use to do heavy computing, file serving, and a  
> few other things that are best to run on a stationary system.  Right  
> now, I'm running Gentoo, but while it's good for customizing a  
> stripped-down system, keeping it up to date is turning out to be more  
> of a pain than I had anticipated.  So I'm looking for a new OS to  
> install.  Aaron suggested that I might get some good advice by asking  
> on the list.
>
> I'm looking at Ubuntu Server to start with.  Interesting differences  
> from the desktop are that (I think) it doesn't start X11 by default,  
> so you don't have that resource consumption when you don't need it,  
> the userspace preemption timer is 100Hz instead of 250 or 1000, the  
> use the deadline I/O scheduler instead of CFQ, and in-kernel  
> preemption is turned off.  I can see how these things may be useful  
> for maintaining higher throughput under some circumstances.
>
> Interestingly, RHEL doesn't do all the same.  For instance, they use  
> CFQ instead of deadline.  Most of my workloads are not disk bound, but  
> one of them has a data set that is 11 gigs.  I have 8 gigs of RAM.  I  
> mmap the file into memory, so as I'm processing, pages that are not in  
> memory get faulted in as needed, evicting others.  Maintaining a small  
> memory footprint of system services and low I/O latency are important  
> for this job.  I also want to minimize CPU overhead of system services.
>
> I like using Ubuntu on the desktop.  I especially like apt-get and how  
> it automatically manages dependencies, and downloads packages from the  
> net.  While I'm pretty sure that Fedora and CentOS do something  
> equivalent with yum, I've found that RHEL appears to be crippled in  
> this regard.
>
> I know nothing about SuSE, Mandriva, or anything else, but I'm not  
> entirely opposed.  I'm also not entirely opposed to running a BSD,  
> although I'm even more unfamiliar with those.
>
> Can anyone help me with this decision?  I'd like to be able to  
> basically just install and go, configure things like SAMBA with a  
> minimal amount of effort, install packages with apt-get, and upgrade  
> rarely but effortlessly.  I almost never sit at the console, although  
> a graphical console (1280x1024 on the monitor gives me 160x64 text) is  
> nice when I have to.  I want to have to start X11 on only the most  
> rare occasions.  Mostly, I just login with ssh and use gnu screen for  
> multiple virtual terminals.  Sometimes, I'll run an X11 app on the  
> server, with the X protocol directed over the ssh link to wherever I'm  
> working from.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Timothy Normand Miller
> millerti at cse.ohio-state.edu
> http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~millerti
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:23:23 -0500
> From: Shaun Brady <brady.1345 at osu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [opensource] Selecting a Linux server distro?
> To: Timothy Normand Miller <millerti at cse.ohio-state.edu>
> Cc: opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
> Message-ID: <4973F22B.1000606 at osu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I'd definitely recommend Debian.  Ubuntu has done wonders for desktop 
> distros, but it has to tip it's hat Debian.  Debian created the god-send 
> that is apt.  Debian net install defaults to bare bones no X.  I think 
> running Ubuntu "Server" just seems like Debian to me.  I can't speak for 
> the kernel internals (don't know 'em off hand) but you could always 
> custom compile, which there are Debian packages to make your own, AND 
> keep dpkg aware of them.   Let me know if you have any questions in this 
> regard, but that's my $.02
>
> SB
>
> Timothy Normand Miller wrote:
>   
>> Hey, all.
>>
>> I have a question about Linux server distros.  I have a quad core box 
>> here at my house that I use to do heavy computing, file serving, and a 
>> few other things that are best to run on a stationary system.  Right 
>> now, I'm running Gentoo, but while it's good for customizing a 
>> stripped-down system, keeping it up to date is turning out to be more of 
>> a pain than I had anticipated.  So I'm looking for a new OS to install.  
>> Aaron suggested that I might get some good advice by asking on the list.
>>
>> I'm looking at Ubuntu Server to start with.  Interesting differences 
>> from the desktop are that (I think) it doesn't start X11 by default, so 
>> you don't have that resource consumption when you don't need it, the 
>> userspace preemption timer is 100Hz instead of 250 or 1000, the use the 
>> deadline I/O scheduler instead of CFQ, and in-kernel preemption is 
>> turned off.  I can see how these things may be useful for maintaining 
>> higher throughput under some circumstances.
>>
>> Interestingly, RHEL doesn't do all the same.  For instance, they use CFQ 
>> instead of deadline.  Most of my workloads are not disk bound, but one 
>> of them has a data set that is 11 gigs.  I have 8 gigs of RAM.  I mmap 
>> the file into memory, so as I'm processing, pages that are not in memory 
>> get faulted in as needed, evicting others.  Maintaining a small memory 
>> footprint of system services and low I/O latency are important for this 
>> job.  I also want to minimize CPU overhead of system services.
>>
>> I like using Ubuntu on the desktop.  I especially like apt-get and how 
>> it automatically manages dependencies, and downloads packages from the 
>> net.  While I'm pretty sure that Fedora and CentOS do something 
>> equivalent with yum, I've found that RHEL appears to be crippled in this 
>> regard.
>>
>> I know nothing about SuSE, Mandriva, or anything else, but I'm not 
>> entirely opposed.  I'm also not entirely opposed to running a BSD, 
>> although I'm even more unfamiliar with those.
>>
>> Can anyone help me with this decision?  I'd like to be able to basically 
>> just install and go, configure things like SAMBA with a minimal amount 
>> of effort, install packages with apt-get, and upgrade rarely but 
>> effortlessly.  I almost never sit at the console, although a graphical 
>> console (1280x1024 on the monitor gives me 160x64 text) is nice when I 
>> have to.  I want to have to start X11 on only the most rare occasions.  
>> Mostly, I just login with ssh and use gnu screen for multiple virtual 
>> terminals.  Sometimes, I'll run an X11 app on the server, with the X 
>> protocol directed over the ssh link to wherever I'm working from.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> Timothy Normand Miller
>> millerti at cse.ohio-state.edu
>> http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~millerti
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensource mailing list
>> Opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu
>> http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource
>>     
>
>
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> End of Opensource Digest, Vol 47, Issue 4
> *****************************************
>
>   
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