[opensource] [opensource-announce-officers] Constitution Change Proposal

Cziryak, Andrew H. cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
Mon Oct 22 18:15:03 EDT 2018


Steve,

Thanks for the input, and I think we're both agreeing here.

> That said, I have not read the documents at issue here So please do not take my comments as being for or against any particular provision.

Just to clarify, if you are so inclined, you should be able to view the document at https://github.com/OSUOSC/constitution_change. If you _can't_ please let me know, because that means something has gone very, very wrong!

Regards,

On 10/22/18 6:09 PM, Steve VanSlyck wrote:
Gentlemen,

No one has specifically asked for my input, and I am a member of the club only my interest. I can’t even come to most of the meetings. But his lawyer many years standing, I would like to simply offer that there is a fundamental difference between constitutions and bylaws.

Legal structures are created by legal agreements. A constitution, whether it is the constitution of the nation, a state, or a neighborhood lawn mowing crew, is it document which gives birth to an organization, and is an agreement.

it sets out the most high level of structure for the rights and obligations of the constituting members.

It should not deal in matters such as when meetings are held, the time that they are health, or who can make a motion. Those matters are what bylaws are for.

That said, I have not read the documents at issue here So please do not take my comments as being for or against any particular provision.

What I am saying is that these documents need to be organized, and they need to intersect each other consistently just as you would with code.

Make sure you follow all of the logical branches For each if-then statement contained in the constitution, and each if then statement contained in the bylaws. Keep what they do separate from each other. Make sure everything leads to a logical conclusion. If you could do all of that your documents should be well written.

I know this has been a bit rambling, but I hope it has been helpful in someway.

On Oct 22, 2018, at 17:52, Chris Wallace <cbwcjw at gmail.com<mailto:cbwcjw at gmail.com>> wrote:

Howdy!

I am missing plenty of context here, but here's my comments:

  *   it seems unnecessary to change the constitution or set it up in a way where it must be amended often.
  *   ideally, the constitution should meet the bare minimum as required by the University
  *   any additional positions can just be created on a yearly basis, depending on the club's needs

In short, I'm agreeing with the below, but I would also be loose with even the officer requirements.

- notori0us


On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 2:30 PM Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>> wrote:
Steve,

I don't understand how the subsidiary document in this instance is the one dictating the terms of how/when the constitution is to be amended. The phrasing may be poor on my part, but what it was meant to convey is that creation or modification of the by-laws are preferable to the modification of the constitution if at all possible.

Of course, if there needs to be a constitutional revision to keep the document in line with the philosophy of the club, the modification thereof is encouraged. However, it is encouraged only after it has been determined that such modifications are not appropriate to the by-laws, which are subsidiary to the constitution.

Basically, only if they're important enough, they should go in the constitution. Otherwise, just use the by-laws!

Regards,

On 10/21/18 8:18 AM, Steve VanSlyck wrote:

As a lawyer I would be remiss if I dis not indicate the bylaws are subsidiary to the Constitution. by laws are a procedural document, not a constitutional one. A Constitution can and should be amendable only pursuant to terms provided in the constitution itself, not a subsidiary document for procedural matters such as bylaws!



On Oct 21, 2018, at 07:37, Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>> wrote:

Yes, I am advocating a strict encouragement that the constitution should
be changed frequently. However, right above that is the following:



this article (article VI) allows the creation of by-laws in favor of


amending the main body of the Constitution (this Document) with an
majority vote.


Maybe I should have said 'creation or modification of any by-laws...',
inferring that if at all possible, change the by-laws rather than the
constitution. However, it is not discouraged to change the constitution,
and curate it moreso as a living document rather than a historical
landmark. FWIW, the Union does make the Club reaffirm it every year. Why
discourage those current members who, for some reason or another, take
issue with it? Is it not to reflect the current state of the Club?



And a few lines later is a word I don’t know the definition of: insolongas


I think my spacebar just stopped working there. Thanks for pointing that out.

Regards,

On 10/20/18 9:43 PM, Mark Geary wrote:


On Oct 19, 2018, at 9:02 PM, Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>> wrote:

Hello all,

As we talked about in the last meeting, there are proposed changes to
the constitution that are going to be voted on at the next meeting. I
would invite anyone who wants to do so to compare the old and new
versions that are hosted at
https://github.com/OSUOSC/constitution_change. Pull requests are welcome
with suggestions for any changes. Or if you are more comfortable, you
can email the officers directly at opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu<mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu><mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu<mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu>>.

I do hope to get feedback on this, so please take a little time to
review it for yourself before Thursday's meeting.


Is this line from the new constitution one of the intended changes?

    It is strictly encouraged that the constitution should be changed frequently.

And a few lines later is a word I don’t know the definition of: insolongas

Mark Geary


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--
Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>>


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--
Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>>
_______________________________________________
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University

https://opensource.osu.edu

The Open Source Club
1739 N. High Street
Ohio Union Resource Room
Columbus, OH 43210

Unsubscribe from these emails at: http://mailman.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource


--
Chris Wallace

--
Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>


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