[opensource] [opensource-announce-officers] Constitution Change Proposal

Steve VanSlyck s.vanslyck at postpro.net
Mon Oct 22 18:15:08 EDT 2018


Just to mention one more thing that I missed in my long diatribe.

Typically bylaws are used for how to determine what goes on in a meeting. For example, what constitute a quorum. What percentage of the court must be present in order to take action. What time meetings will be. What date they will be. Notice requirements. That sort of thing.

I think I will step out now and let the primary member of the club decide for themselves how they want to manage their own affairs, as my health is probably not needed. Or useful 

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 18:11, Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hey Chris!
> 
> In regards to the encouragement of changes to the constitution, I expect that will be a shock to everyone that reads it, which is quite understandable! However, I'll circle back to the by-laws and point out that the revision:
> 
> > allows the creation or modification of by-laws in favor of amending the main body of the Constitution (this Document)
> 
> In a sense, although the phrasing is suggestive that the constitution is to be changed frequently, we can see that in all situations where change is necessary, it is favorable for the by-laws to be changed rather than the constitution. I do _not_ believe this setup will lead to a frequently-changed constitution.
> 
> Moving on from that, you had mentioned something regarding 'additional positions can just be created on a yearly basis _depending on the club's needs_'. As far as I know, that is still a valid statement for this constitution. In fact, it is even truer with this constitution, as it does not specifically dictate responsibilities of the officers beyond what is required by the University. Also, the leniency for the officers has been _drastically_ expanded - and I've already gotten pushback from other officers regarding that. So can you please explain how this version is not loose enough with officer requirements or flexible enough in general?
> 
> Regards,
> 
>> On 10/22/18 5:52 PM, Chris Wallace wrote:
>> Howdy!
>> 
>> I am missing plenty of context here, but here's my comments:
>> it seems unnecessary to change the constitution or set it up in a way where it must be amended often.
>> ideally, the constitution should meet the bare minimum as required by the University
>> any additional positions can just be created on a yearly basis, depending on the club's needs
>> In short, I'm agreeing with the below, but I would also be loose with even the officer requirements.
>> 
>> - notori0us
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 2:30 PM Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu> wrote:
>>> Steve,
>>> 
>>> I don't understand how the subsidiary document in this instance is the one dictating the terms of how/when the constitution is to be amended. The phrasing may be poor on my part, but what it was meant to convey is that creation or modification of the by-laws are preferable to the modification of the constitution if at all possible.
>>> 
>>> Of course, if there needs to be a constitutional revision to keep the document in line with the philosophy of the club, the modification thereof is encouraged. However, it is encouraged only after it has been determined that such modifications are not appropriate to the by-laws, which are subsidiary to the constitution.
>>> 
>>> Basically, only if they're important enough, they should go in the constitution. Otherwise, just use the by-laws!
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> On 10/21/18 8:18 AM, Steve VanSlyck wrote:
>>> 
>>> As a lawyer I would be remiss if I dis not indicate the bylaws are subsidiary to the Constitution. by laws are a procedural document, not a constitutional one. A Constitution can and should be amendable only pursuant to terms provided in the constitution itself, not a subsidiary document for procedural matters such as bylaws!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 21, 2018, at 07:37, Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, I am advocating a strict encouragement that the constitution should
>>> be changed frequently. However, right above that is the following:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> this article (article VI) allows the creation of by-laws in favor of
>>> 
>>> 
>>> amending the main body of the Constitution (this Document) with an
>>> majority vote.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Maybe I should have said 'creation or modification of any by-laws...',
>>> inferring that if at all possible, change the by-laws rather than the
>>> constitution. However, it is not discouraged to change the constitution,
>>> and curate it moreso as a living document rather than a historical
>>> landmark. FWIW, the Union does make the Club reaffirm it every year. Why
>>> discourage those current members who, for some reason or another, take
>>> issue with it? Is it not to reflect the current state of the Club?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> And a few lines later is a word I don’t know the definition of: insolongas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think my spacebar just stopped working there. Thanks for pointing that out.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> On 10/20/18 9:43 PM, Mark Geary wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2018, at 9:02 PM, Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> As we talked about in the last meeting, there are proposed changes to
>>> the constitution that are going to be voted on at the next meeting. I
>>> would invite anyone who wants to do so to compare the old and new
>>> versions that are hosted at
>>> https://github.com/OSUOSC/constitution_change. Pull requests are welcome
>>> with suggestions for any changes. Or if you are more comfortable, you
>>> can email the officers directly at opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu<mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu>.
>>> 
>>> I do hope to get feedback on this, so please take a little time to
>>> review it for yourself before Thursday's meeting.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is this line from the new constitution one of the intended changes?
>>> 
>>>     It is strictly encouraged that the constitution should be changed frequently.
>>> 
>>> And a few lines later is a word I don’t know the definition of: insolongas
>>> 
>>> Mark Geary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu<mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu>
>>> OSC-officers mailing list
>>> https://opensource.osu.edu/info/officers/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
>>> The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
>>> cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
>>> 
>>> https://opensource.osu.edu
>>> 
>>> The Open Source Club
>>> 1739 N. High Street
>>> Ohio Union Resource Room
>>> Columbus, OH 43210
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe from these emails at: http://mailman.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
>>> The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
>>> cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
>>> 
>>> https://opensource.osu.edu
>>> 
>>> The Open Source Club
>>> 1739 N. High Street
>>> Ohio Union Resource Room
>>> Columbus, OH 43210
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe from these emails at: http://mailman.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Chris Wallace
> -- 
> Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
> The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
> cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu


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