[opensource] [opensource-announce-officers] Constitution Change Proposal

Cziryak, Andrew H. cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
Mon Oct 22 18:21:34 EDT 2018


Nikit,

There have been no means to curtail the creation of new roles. In fact, I held the position of "Librarian" last semester, which was created on "a bit of a whim".

However, the leniency I am talking about is the ability for officers to miss over 50% of the meetings without reprecussion. Also, the responsibilities of the officers are not spelled out in the constitution. It is up to them to figure out how to get things done, and who does what. It solely lists responsibilities and requirements to maintain the position.

Regards,

On 10/22/18 6:15 PM, Malkan, Nikit R. wrote:
> Also, the leniency for the officers has been _drastically_ expanded - and I've already gotten pushback from other officers regarding that.

Could you expand upon that? In the past we've added roles as necessary on a bit of a whim.

Nikit Malkan
________________________________
From: Cziryak, Andrew H.
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 6:13 PM
To: Chris Wallace
Cc: opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu<mailto:opensource at cse.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: [opensource] [opensource-announce-officers] Constitution Change Proposal

Hey Chris!

In regards to the encouragement of changes to the constitution, I expect that will be a shock to everyone that reads it, which is quite understandable! However, I'll circle back to the by-laws and point out that the revision:

> allows the creation or modification of by-laws in favor of amending the main body of the Constitution (this Document)

In a sense, although the phrasing is suggestive that the constitution is to be changed frequently, we can see that in all situations where change is necessary, it is favorable for the by-laws to be changed rather than the constitution. I do _not_ believe this setup will lead to a frequently-changed constitution.

Moving on from that, you had mentioned something regarding 'additional positions can just be created on a yearly basis _depending on the club's needs_'. As far as I know, that is still a valid statement for this constitution. In fact, it is even truer with this constitution, as it does not specifically dictate responsibilities of the officers beyond what is required by the University. Also, the leniency for the officers has been _drastically_ expanded - and I've already gotten pushback from other officers regarding that. So can you please explain how this version is not loose enough with officer requirements or flexible enough in general?

Regards,

On 10/22/18 5:52 PM, Chris Wallace wrote:
Howdy!

I am missing plenty of context here, but here's my comments:

  *   it seems unnecessary to change the constitution or set it up in a way where it must be amended often.
  *   ideally, the constitution should meet the bare minimum as required by the University
  *   any additional positions can just be created on a yearly basis, depending on the club's needs

In short, I'm agreeing with the below, but I would also be loose with even the officer requirements.

- notori0us


On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 2:30 PM Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>> wrote:
Steve,

I don't understand how the subsidiary document in this instance is the one dictating the terms of how/when the constitution is to be amended. The phrasing may be poor on my part, but what it was meant to convey is that creation or modification of the by-laws are preferable to the modification of the constitution if at all possible.

Of course, if there needs to be a constitutional revision to keep the document in line with the philosophy of the club, the modification thereof is encouraged. However, it is encouraged only after it has been determined that such modifications are not appropriate to the by-laws, which are subsidiary to the constitution.

Basically, only if they're important enough, they should go in the constitution. Otherwise, just use the by-laws!

Regards,

On 10/21/18 8:18 AM, Steve VanSlyck wrote:

As a lawyer I would be remiss if I dis not indicate the bylaws are subsidiary to the Constitution. by laws are a procedural document, not a constitutional one. A Constitution can and should be amendable only pursuant to terms provided in the constitution itself, not a subsidiary document for procedural matters such as bylaws!



On Oct 21, 2018, at 07:37, Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>> wrote:

Yes, I am advocating a strict encouragement that the constitution should
be changed frequently. However, right above that is the following:



this article (article VI) allows the creation of by-laws in favor of


amending the main body of the Constitution (this Document) with an
majority vote.


Maybe I should have said 'creation or modification of any by-laws...',
inferring that if at all possible, change the by-laws rather than the
constitution. However, it is not discouraged to change the constitution,
and curate it moreso as a living document rather than a historical
landmark. FWIW, the Union does make the Club reaffirm it every year. Why
discourage those current members who, for some reason or another, take
issue with it? Is it not to reflect the current state of the Club?



And a few lines later is a word I don’t know the definition of: insolongas


I think my spacebar just stopped working there. Thanks for pointing that out.

Regards,

On 10/20/18 9:43 PM, Mark Geary wrote:


On Oct 19, 2018, at 9:02 PM, Cziryak, Andrew H. <cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>> wrote:

Hello all,

As we talked about in the last meeting, there are proposed changes to
the constitution that are going to be voted on at the next meeting. I
would invite anyone who wants to do so to compare the old and new
versions that are hosted at
https://github.com/OSUOSC/constitution_change. Pull requests are welcome
with suggestions for any changes. Or if you are more comfortable, you
can email the officers directly at opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu<mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu><mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu><mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu><mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu<mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu><mailto:opensource-announce at cse.ohio-state.edu>>.

I do hope to get feedback on this, so please take a little time to
review it for yourself before Thursday's meeting.


Is this line from the new constitution one of the intended changes?

    It is strictly encouraged that the constitution should be changed frequently.

And a few lines later is a word I don’t know the definition of: insolongas

Mark Geary


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Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>>


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--
Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>>
_______________________________________________
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University

https://opensource.osu.edu

The Open Source Club
1739 N. High Street
Ohio Union Resource Room
Columbus, OH 43210

Unsubscribe from these emails at: http://mailman.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource


--
Chris Wallace

--
Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu><mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
_______________________________________________
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University

https://opensource.osu.edu

The Open Source Club
1739 N. High Street
Ohio Union Resource Room
Columbus, OH 43210

Unsubscribe from these emails at: http://mailman.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource

--
Andrew `oscziryak` Cziryak
The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:cziryak.1 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>


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